Challenging an Orthodox Jew on his New Testament ideas

The following was originally a Facebook post by a traditional Jew:

Does Paul tell us if all the Old Covenant has passed away or if only part of the Old Covenant has passed away? Paul says:

"By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear" (Hebrews 8:13).

According to Paul the entire Old Covenant has become obsolete, not just the ceremonial part! For a Sabbatarian/ Messianic to be biblical, whatever he believes, he must deal honestly with this verse. What does it say? "...he(Jesus) has made the first one obsolete..." This verse is very clear: the first or Old Covenant is obsolete or has passed away.

In Galatians 5:1, Jesus has freed all believers from something Paul calls "a yoke of slavery". In context this verse is the culmination of Paul's allegory on Christian freedom (4:21-31). In Paul's allegory the yoke of slavery is the burden of the whole Old Covenant.

"Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says?" (4:21).

What "law" is Paul referring to? He continues, "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman" (v.22). Where is this written? In one of the five books of Moses that contains all the law. This story is not from some ceremonial section of the law of the Old Covenant. It is found in the book of Genesis chapter 16. In Galatians 4:24 it is as clear as crystal that Hagar represents the Old Covenant established at Mt. Sinai which covenant means slavery for its children. "These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar." In v. 28 Paul says that his fellow believers are not children of this Old Covenant yoke of slavery, but are the children of New Covenant freedom. In v. 30 Paul tells Christians to "cast out" Hagar who represents the Old Covenant of slavery. What does this accomplish? "Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman" (v. 31). Christians are free from all the laws of the Old Covenant not just the ceremonial ones. The "yoke of slavery" referred to in 5:1 must be the same yoke of slavery that Paul has been referring to in 4:21-31 and that is the whole Old Covenant. "These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar." Were only the ceremonial commandments from Mount Sinai? No, the Ten Commandments and all the other commandments were from Mount Sinai. Hagar represents the entire Old Covenant and Christians are to cast out that entire covenant in order to become children of freedom.

According to the New Testament, the purpose of the Law was to reveal God's standard of righteousness and man's sinfulness. This in turn teaches man that he needs a substitutionary atonement-a savior. According to the New Testament, the Law of Moses was also a monitor over one immature in faith. When one moves to a mature faith, characterized by accepting the finished work of Jesus, that person is no longer in the monitor's charge (see Galatians 3:23-25). Therefore, the monitor has reached its goal and is dismissed. The entire Mosaic Law becomes obsolete and the Christian comes under the Law of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 6:2).

Modern day 7th day Sabbatarians, want to enforce mandatory 7th day Sabbath on Christians. Even the Sabbatarians realize that the vast majority of the Mosaic Covenant laws are obsolete in the New Covenant [circumcision for example]. In the hope of salvaging their Sabbath keeping, sabbatarians try to force distinctions on the Mosaic Laws. The usual distinctions invented are to call some moral laws (the Ten Commandments), some ceremonial, and some legal or civil. The reason for these unbiblical categories is so that they can claim that Christians are not under the ceremonial or civil laws, but are still under the Ten Commandments.

In Scripture, the Law of Moses is always spoken of as one unit comprised of 613 commandments. It is crucial for the serious student of the Bible to understand that the Mosaic Laws, all 613 commands, are viewed as one unit in the Bible. The Bible nowhere gives us permission to separate the laws of the Mosaic Covenant. The word "law" (Torah in Hebrew & Nomos in the Greek) when applied to the Mosaic Law is always singular even though it contains 613 separate commandments. For example;

"This is the law which Moses set before the Israelites. These are the ordinances, statutes, and decrees which he proclaimed to them when they came out of Egypt" (Deuteronomy 4:44-45).

Clearly "the law" here is all 613 laws not just the Decalogue.

"Then were read aloud all the words of the law, the blessings and the curses, exactly as written in the book of the law. Every single word that Moses had commanded, Joshua read aloud..." (Joshua 8:34-35).

Again all the law without separation is referred to.

"Keep the mandate of the Lord, your God, following his ways and observing his statutes, commands, ordinances, and decrees as they are written in the Law of Moses..." (1 Kings 2:3).

All the requirements are the Law. One final example of many:

"Many nations will come and say, 'Come let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths'.

The Law will go out from Zion, the word of the Lord from Jerusalem" (Micah 4:2).

Other passages showing that the Law of the Mosaic Covenant is one unit include Leviticus 18:5; 24:22; Deuteronomy 4:1, 5, 8; 6:25; 31:12-13; 2 Kings 17:3; 21:8; 23:25; 1 Chronicles 16:40; Ezra 7:6; Psalm 78:5; 119:1, 55, 108, 137, 174; 147:20; Proverbs 31:4-5; Isaiah 5:24; Jeremiah 18:18; Lamentations 2:9; Ezekiel 7:26; Hosea 4:6; Amos 2:4; Habakkuk 1:4; Zephaniah 3:4; Zechariah 7:12; Malachi 2:9; Mark 15:31; John 1:17; Acts 13:39; Galatians 3:10; Ephesians 2:14-15; 1 Timothy 1:7-8; Titus 3:9; Hebrews 10:28; James 2:10. The idea that the Law of the Lord equals the Ten Commandments and that the Law of Moses equals the now obsolete ceremonial law is not supported by Scripture. The ceremonial law is called "the Law of the Lord" numerous times in Scripture. "From his own wealth the king allotted a portion for holocausts, those of morning and evening and those on Sabbaths, new moons and festivals, as prescribed in the law of the LORD" (2 Chronicles 31:3). This obvious reference to the ceremonial laws (weekly, monthly, yearly sequence) is called the Law of the Lord and not that of Moses as the Sabbatarian/ Messianic thesis requires. In Nehemiah 8 we have the example of the "Law of Moses" and the "Law of the Lord" being used to refer to the same books. "...they called upon Ezra the scribe to bring forth the book of the law of Moses..." (v.1). "Ezra read plainly from the book of the law of God..." (v. 8). In a clear reference to the ceremonial law we read, "They found it written in the law prescribed by the Lord through Moses that the Israelites must dwell in booths during the feast of the seventh month" (v. 14; see Leviticus 23:33-36). From what book was this read? "Ezra read from the book of the law of God..." (v.18). This passage from Nehemiah 8 uses the two terms in question interchangeably. Other passages where the ceremonial law is called the Law of the Lord are Exodus 13:7-9; 1 Chronicles 16:40; 2 Chronicles 31:3-4.

In the New Testament we read from the lips of Jesus; "Have you not read in the Law how the priests on temple duty break the Sabbath rest without incurring guilt?" (Matthew 12:5). This is a clear reference to the ceremonial law called by Jesus "the Law". This indicates that Jesus considered the Mosaic Law to be one inseparable unit-the Law. When Jesus was asked which of the commandments of the Law was the greatest he quoted two commandments neither of which was from the so-called moral law, that is the Ten Commandments (see Matthew 22:34-40). Instead he quoted from the so-called ceremonial or civil law (see Deuteronomy 6:5 & Leviticus 19:18). Again it seems that Jesus understood the Mosaic Law to be one inseparable unit. One final New Testament example, "When the day came to purify them according to the law of Moses, the couple brought him up to Jerusalem so that he could be presented to the Lord, for it is written in the law of the Lord, 'Every first born male shall be consecrated to the Lord'. They came to offer in sacrifice 'a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons', in accord with the dictates in the law of the Lord (Luke 2:22-24). Here we see once again the Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord equated. The ceremonial law is clearly in view, as also can be seen in Luke 2:39, and is referred to as the "Law of the Lord."

The obvious truth is that the Bible never even once makes any distinction in terms of the Law between one moral and one ceremonial. On the contrary the 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant are always viewed as one unit. This helps to explain why we read, "Cursed be he who fails to fulfill any of the provisions of this law!" (Deuteronomy 27:26). "It is written, 'Cursed is he who does not abide by everything written in the book of the law and carry it out'" (Galatians 3:10). "Whoever falls into sin on one point of the Law, even though he keeps the entire remainder, he has become guilty on all counts" (James 2:10). These Scripture makes perfect sense if the Law is one inseparable unit.

Menashe

The Netzarim Response

Let's first be completely clear about the fact that Messiah's Name was NEVER "Jesus." It was Y'shua...."Jesus" means absolutely nothing while Y'shua means, "YHWH is Salvation."

MENASHE SAID: Does Paul tell us if all the Old Covenant has passed away or if only part of the Old Covenant has passed away? Paul says: "By calling this covenant 'new,' he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear" (Hebrews 8:13). According to Paul the entire Old Covenant has become obsolete, not just the ceremonial part! For a Sabbatarian/ Messianic to be biblical, whatever he believes, he must deal honestly with this verse. What does it say? "...he(Jesus) has made the first one obsolete..." This verse is very clear: the first or Old Covenant is obsolete or has passed away.

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: It's amazing how traditional Jews don't seem to understand the "New Testament" writings any better than most Christians do! Please read the following which will help clarify what the NT actually said:

Hebrews 8:13 says: 13. In that he said a Renewed (Covenant), he made the first old; and that which is old and decaying, is near to disappearing. (AENT)

The context is Jeremiah 31:31-34, what is "near to disappearing" is the sinful nature of man that breaks Torah, not the standard of Torah. Remember that we broke Torah, not YHWH. YHWH did not drop the standard of Torah because Israel chose disobedience; rather, He installed a Renewed Covenant to write Torah upon the heart through the work of the Ruach haKodesh, according to Mashiyach. The fact of the matter is that in Mashiyach, YHWH raised the bar; He magnified Torah; see Isaiah 42:21. Because mankind broke Covenant, YHWH requires complete renovation on our part, not YHWH's part of the Covenant. This verse in its twisted form, became one of the "crown jewels" of Torahless Christianity which teaches that Torah is decaying and is near to disappearing, but nothing could be farther from the truth.

Concerning your ideas about Galatians, let's take it a little further than you did....

Galatians 5: 1. Therefore you stand in the liberty of the Mashiyach, liberty and not subjugation, turning from the yoke of servitude. 2. Behold, I Paul say to you, if you are circumcised, then Mashiyach is a thing that has no benefit for you. 3. I testify to you again (return to my testifying), that every circumcised man is obligated to act on the entire Torah. 4. Those of you who are in Torah and who are seeking justification (from it), you have ceased to be from Mashiyach, (and therefore) you have fallen from grace. 5. For we, through the blessings of the Spirit, which is from faith, abide in the hope of righteousness. 6. For in Mashiyach Y'shua, circumcision and uncircumcision are nothing, but faith is completed through love. (AENT)

[1] If a person is immersed (baptized) or circumcised to please the status quo, it profits them nothing. Paul is referring to traditional, religious, Pharisaical, peer group circumcisions that are required before acceptance into status quo religious organizations. Christians who have been baptized into the name of a denomination can likely relate to this as well. Many Christians choose to be re-baptized after realizing their former baptism was into a denominational religion, rather than into the Kingdom of Elohim.

[2] The word tob has multiple meanings; the root means "to return" and this covers several related ideas. Semitic thought has always viewed morality as a straight path (Isaiah 40:3, Matthew 3:3). An evil person is one who is lost or has taken a crooked path, but if he repents he is said to have "turned back." That is why a variant on this word, teshuvah means "to repent." In this case, Rav Shaul is literally "returning" to his main point.

[3] Some seek "justification" through observance of Torah, others seek it by not observing Torah; both pursuits are based on man's religion. The answer is to observe Torah in YHWH and His Mashiyach and live righteously as Y'shua did. Put trust and Faith in YHWH, not in works or religion, but as co-laborers with Mashiyach!

[4] This can also mean "perfected."

MENASHE SAID: "Tell me, you who want to live under the law, do you know what the law actually says?" (4:21). What "law" is Paul referring to? He continues, "For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman" (v.22). Where is this written? In one of the five books of Moses that contains all the law. This story is not from some ceremonial section of the law of the Old Covenant. It is found in the book of Genesis chapter 16. In Galatians 4:24 it is as clear as crystal that Hagar represents the Old Covenant established at Mt. Sinai which covenant means slavery for its children. "These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar." In v. 28 Paul says that his fellow believers are not children of this Old Covenant yoke of slavery, but are the children of New Covenant freedom. In v. 30 Paul tells Christians to "cast out" Hagar who represents the Old Covenant of slavery. What does this accomplish? "Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman" (v. 31). Christians are free from all the laws of the Old Covenant not just the ceremonial ones. The "yoke of slavery" referred to in 5:1 must be the same yoke of slavery that Paul has been referring to in 4:21-31 and that is the whole Old Covenant. "These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar." Were only the ceremonial commandments from Mount Sinai? No, the Ten Commandments and all the other commandments were from Mount Sinai. Hagar represents the entire Old Covenant and Christians are to cast out that entire covenant in order to become children of freedom."

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: Rav Sha'ul is talking about Torah - which neither he nor any of the other Shlichim EVER negated!

Galatians 4: 21. I say to you, those that desire to let themselves be under Torah, do you not hear (and obey) Torah? 22. For it is written that Awraham had two sons, one from a servant woman and one from a freewoman. 23. But he who was from the servant woman is by the flesh (and) he who was from the freewoman was by the promise. 24. Therefore, these things were symbolic of two covenants, the one from Mount Sinai gave birth to bondage, which is Hagar. 25. For Hagar is the mountain that is in Arabia, and it surrenders to this Urishlim which is now in bondage with her children. 26. But that Urishlim is the freewoman who is the mother of us all. 27. For it is written: Take delight, O barren one. Rejoice and cry, you who cannot travail with birth pains, for the sons of those who are forsaken outnumber the sons of the favored. 28. Now we, my brothers, are as Yitz'chak was, sons of the promise. 29. And just as he who was born through the flesh was persecuted by he who was (born) through the Spirit, so it also is now. 30. But what does the Scripture say? Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for he who is of the bondwoman will not inherit along with the son of the freewoman. 31. Therefore, my brothers, we are not sons of the bondwoman, but sons of the freewoman. (AENT)

[1] Shema means "hear and do" manifesting the hearing with proof of understanding by proper action.

[2] A deep Hebraic wordplay: brit = covenant, but also breet = creation" and women obviously create life in their wombs. In this passage, the life that each woman creates literally gives birth to a "covenant" for each of their sons.

[3] The word here, shlama, is the Aramaic cognate of shalom and, as such, has the normal meaning, "peace." However, in this context "surrender" is preferred, in the sense that Mount Sinai where the covenant was codified into divine writing, must surrender to Jerusalem. The reason for this is, it is Jerusalem and not Sinai where YHWH chose to place His name. The irony, of course, is that this "peaceful surrender" is in stark contrast to today's relationship between Saudi Arabia and the modern state of Israel.

Furthermore, Sha'ul also NEVER said that Gentiles who attach themselves to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob should only adhere to four fundamental rules; he that the expectation of the non-Jewish converts was that they would learn Moshe (Torah) as they grew in their relationship with Mashiyach and his people. Read in context, Acts 15:20-21 shows there is one Torah for Israel and the Gentile who dwells with her - yet, many try to use it as "proof" that Christians don't have to keep Torah. That is because they don't realize that Acts 15 is referring to man-made laws and not the Torah itself....

MENASHE SAID: "According to the New Testament, the purpose of the Law was to reveal God's standard of righteousness and man's sinfulness. This in turn teaches man that he needs a substitutionary atonement-a savior. According to the New Testament, the Law of Moses was also a monitor over one immature in faith. When one moves to a mature faith, characterized by accepting the finished work of Jesus, that person is no longer in the monitor's charge (see Galatians 3:23-25). Therefore, the monitor has reached its goal and is dismissed. The entire Mosaic Law becomes obsolete and the Christian comes under the Law of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:21; Galatians 6:2)".

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: BALONEY! - that is NOT what was said and it is clear that traditional Jews have no more of a real understanding about the writings of Paul than do Christians who have come up with their own god and rules and own theology - all because of their misunderstandings of Paul's writings:

Galatians 3: 23. But before faith came, Torah was guarding us while we were confined from the faith about to be revealed. 24. Torah was therefore a tutor for us, going towards the Mashiyach that we, by faith, might be made righteous. 25. But since faith came, we are no longer under tutors. 26. For you are all the children of Elohim by faith in Y'shua the Mashiyach. 27. For those who have been immersed in Mashiyach have been clothed with Mashiyach. 28. For there is neither Jew nor Aramean, nor slave nor free, nor male nor female, but you are all one in Y'shua the Mashiyach. 29. And if you are of the Mashiyach then you are seeds of Awraham and inheritors by the promise.

[1] In this regard "Torah" can be compared with any righteous values a soul voluntarily imposes upon himself. However, as a spiritual relationship is established with YHWH and His Mashiyach, a soul is elevated to much higher levels of spiritual awareness and accountability. Therefore, it is a complete farce when Christians claim to follow Mashiyach, but willfully violate Torah according to their denominational authorities. See Matthew 7:23.

[2] Most Greek translations have "kept in (ward) under the law" which is indicative of popular anti-Torah theology. However, many fail to understand that without the Torah of YHWH, there would be no Standard with which to prove Mashiyach, therefore NO Mashiyach.

[3] In the most ancient manuscripts in the Peshitta, taraa is 'tutors'; however, it was translated as the singular 'tutor' in Greek. Although the word taraa has the same spelling for both singular and plural, there are times such as here, when the grammar of the sentence does not directly reveal whether it is singular or plural. To correct this problem, the earliest scribes of the Peshitta inserted two dot plural markers called a same above such words, as in this case. A Greek redactor could easily miss these and mistake a singular word for a plural, or vice versa. Aramaic texts are unanimous for when the syames appear, making these readings highly reliable. That being so, what we have here is the true tutor, Torah, being contrasted against false tutors, the Pharisees, who put their oral tradition above the written code of Moses and the Prophets. Such is a common refrain of Y'shua as well in places such as Matthew 15. Unfortunately, this passage was twisted into a "proof text" by anti-Torah Christians who wanted to distance themselves from the Faith of Avraham, Yitzak and Ya'akov.

[4] Clothed with Mashiyach - that is, as a garment wraps a person inside, which is a very common idiom in both Hebrew and Aramaic. Rav Shaul uses it elsewhere in Ephesians when talking about putting on the armor of Elohim and the breastplate of righteousness. A very similar idiomatic usage, "clothed with zeal like a cloak", is found in Isaiah 59:17.

MENASHE SAID: "In Scripture, the Law of Moses is always spoken of as one unit comprised of 613 commandments. It is crucial for the serious student of the Bible to understand that the Mosaic Laws, all 613 commands, are viewed as one unit in the Bible. The Bible nowhere gives us permission to separate the laws of the Mosaic Covenant. The word "law" (Torah in Hebrew & Nomos in the Greek) when applied to the Mosaic Law is always singular even though it contains 613 separate commandments. For example; "This is the law which Moses set before the Israelites. These are the ordinances, statutes, and decrees which he proclaimed to them when they came out of Egypt" (Deuteronomy 4:44-45). "Clearly "the law" here is all 613 laws not just the Decalogue."

THE NETZARIM RESPONSE: ABSOLUTELY! Why would YHWH have two separate rules for His natural and adopted children? We are told we are ONE in Messiah. Gentiles are grafted in to the Olive Tree and cannot make changes to the roots! Same God, same rules. Period. End of sentence.

Unfortunately Catholicism perverted the Word and then Christianity came along later to FURTHER pervert the rules. Christians have come up with their own "holy days" (both steeped in paganism) and can't even keep the commanded SEVENTH DAY. They've changed not only the Name of our Messiah, but also the dates of His birth, death and resurrection - all while munching on pork and shellfish....because somehow, the death of "Jesus" abolished everything YHWH (the HEAD HONCHO!) ever said....

As to the rest of Menashe's comments, we say: RIGHT ON and HALLELUYAH! Without the Torah (ALL of it) we would have NO blueprint for moral, holy living.....As we are told: Sin is transgression of the Torah (I John 3:4).