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Let's examine your questions one at a time:
- Yeshua will build the 3rd Temple
First, there is no language that specifies the Messiah will build the third temple. The language states only that during the Messianic age, the third temple will be built. Please see Will There Be a Third Temple?
- He's supposed to bring all the Jews back to Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
There is no language that specifies the Messiah will bring the Jews back to Israel. The language states only that God will lead the Jews back to Israel. If you then point to Isaiah 11:10 - 11:12, you must distinguish between what the Messiah will do: "BE a banner to all nations" and what God will actually do: "RAISE a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel."
Thus, one must distinguish between the roles of God in heaven, and the Messiah on earth. This contention is reinforced by Zechariah 10:8-12, which provides that God (not the Messiah on earth) will gather the Jews back to Israel.
- He's supposed to bring world Peace (Isaiah 2:4)
This language applies to the second coming of Yeshua. While this concept is obnoxious - and laughable to many Jews, please remember we are discussing God's plan for the world. He has every right, as God, to allow the prophecies of the prophets to unfold over an expanse of time, and not within a single human lifetime. God's timeframe is His own, and may not fit within our conception of how long things should take, or when they should occur. After all, if God is all-powerful, and He intended to redeem humankind in one fell swoop, He could have done so. By sharp contrast, He did not. He has been unfolding His plan for the world over thousands of years. Yeshua, as the Word of God, is a component of this unfolding.
Take Israel for example. God promised the Jews the land of Caanan (Israel) as their home. The Jews were then expelled from the land and - for over 2000 years - Israel ceased to exist. During this time, anyone could have argued that the Jews' expulsion from their homeland was evidence of a breached promise and failed prophecy of God. But, this prophecy is not one which unfolds within a single human lifetime. The proof is that in 1948, over 2000 years later, the state of Israel was recognized. Israel had returned to the map.
One must also consider Isaiah 53:3, which provides that the Messiah will be rejected. If the Messiah is to be rejected, He cannot also reign over the world during an era of world peace. This implies, by definition, a continuing mission over time.
There is additional evidence to consider. The Messiah's first advent was as the suffering servant (Isaiah 53:1-12.) His second coming will be as a conquering king (Zechariah 14:1-15) come to rule with a rod of iron (Psalm 2:9).
Why are these passages significant? In one instance, the Messiah is described as being the expected King, having salvation, lowly and riding on the foal of a donkey. That is, the use of a donkey symbolizes His servitude. Conversely, the later image of a conquering king symbolizes a triumphant return, as evidenced by Daniel 7:13:
Daniel 7:13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Many rabbis were unable to reconcile these two radically different descriptions of the Messiah, and interpreted them to mean two different Messiahs would come. After all, how can the Messiah be both lowly on a donkey and a triumphant king at the same time? The obvious reality of these passages is they foretell the first and second comings of Yeshua. Put simply, He came first as the lamb, but will return as the lion - the lion of Judah.
The prophets even foretell that the Jewish people, in their moment of utmost despair, will repent for rejecting Yeshua and, in that moment, trigger this return: I (Yahweh) will go away and return to My place until they (Israel) acknowledge their guilt and seek my face. In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me (Hosea 5:15).
God's reaction to Israel's repentance is continued (Zechariah 12:10) which provides: And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Clearly, the one that has been pierced is Yeshua. More importantly, and most obviously, they can only be looking at Him if He is in front of their faces for them to look at. That is, if He has returned for them to see.
- He's supposed to bring Universal Knowledge of G-d (the G-d of Israel) (Isaiah 11:9, Jer 31:33)
The analysis above applies here as well.
- Also bear in mind: Nowhere in the bible does it say that you have to "believe" in the messiah when he comes. When the Third Holy Temple will be built, and world peace will prevail over the earth it will be so obvious that the Messianic Age is here that one won't have to take anybody's word for it; you can see it for yourself.
Deuteronomy 34:10-12 states: Since Moses, no prophet has risen in Israel like him, whom the Lord knew face to face, who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the Lord sent him to do...For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.
Keeping this in mind, consider Deuteronomy 18:15-19, where God tells Moses of the Messiah: I will raise up for them (the Jews) a prophet like you from among your own brothers. You (the Jews) must listen to him...I will put words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him (Word of God in a man). If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
It is important to note that God is not simply speaking of "the" prophets in general (Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc.), but "a" prophet as great as Moses. A prophet that would have a face to face relationship with God, a prophet that would perform miracles, a prophet to whom we all must listen. This serves as a stark contrast to the roles played by the traditional prophets, whom God communicates with through visions and dreams (Numbers 12:6).
Two traditional Rabbis who argue that we must recognize and believe in the Messiah include Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Rabbi Shmuel Butman. Boteach states that "the belief in the coming of the Messiah is more central to Judaism than even the observance of the Sabbath or Yom Kippur," even referring to the belief in the coming of the Messiah as "the cardinal principal of Jewish faith," and noting that "one is required not only to believe in the coming of the Messiah, but actually await his arrival." Butman provides that "Whoever does not believe in Him, or does not look forward to his coming, denies not only the other prophets, but the Torah...."
- ....You can believe whatever you want to believe, but don't use our book and rewrite the story, then tell us that we are stiff-necked and blinded to the truth. We, as you do in your book, go by what G-D's word tells us to do.
Any claim that a person or group of people are "stiff-necked" for their belief system is inappropriate. We are all searching for the truth, even though we may disagree as to what the truth is. We do not claim to have the truth for everyone. Rather, we encourage people to raise questions and search out the truth for themselves.
Having said this, we also disagree with the suggestion that Messianic Jews should not use the Torah to form arguments to support their positions. The Refiner's Fire has several Jewish friends who grew up in conservative Jewish homes, and they've all concluded through TORAH, that Yeshua is the promised Messiah of the Jews.
To invalidate my reasoning because I point to "our book" as a source by which I arrive at my conclusion is illogical. If we follow that logic, what you really contend is that one may use these sources to marshal arguments so long as those arguments agree with your position.
If they do not, "our book" is no longer my book, and I am attempting to "rewrite the story." Such a position is nonsensical.
If you are so concerned with people who rewrite the story, consider Jews who follow Kabbalah. Kabbalah teaches that human beings have direct control over God's power in this world. It teaches that God gave us Torah to follow His law, and that by doing so, we channel to Him the energy He needs to garner power. In return, He gives us blessings in our lives.
The fact that this heretical position is acceptable, and the Messianic position is totally out of bounds, defies logic. Messianic Jews believe the all powerful God of Israel became flesh in the form of Yeshua to provide divine interpretation to Torah, and to be the final sin sacrifice. Considering God appeared as a burning bush, a cloud, and as a man in the Torah, you may wish to reconsider your position on Messianic Judaism.
- Most people don't even realize that the most important question that separates Judaism and Christianity ISN'T whether Jesus was the Messiah or not! Faith and Law are the major differences! Jews do not believe in the concept of faith!
The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines "faith" as: "reliance, trust in; belief founded on authority; theological belief in religious doctrines, esp. such as affects character and conduct, spiritual apprehension of divine truth apart from proof; system of religious belief."
The easy argument, assuming this definition applies, is that anyone who does not have absolute proof that God exists must, to some degree, have faith. The logical implication of this contention is that both Christians and Jews have faith. The more difficult question is whether notions of faith appear in the Old Testament. They do.
- Listen to me, Judah and people of Jerusalem! Have faith in the Lord your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful. (2 Chronicles 20:20)
- If you do not stand firm in your faith, you will not stand at all. (Isaiah 7:9)
- My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. (Numbers 12:7)
- Then the presidents and princes sought to find occasion against Daniel concerning the kingdom; but they could find none occasion nor fault; forasmuch as he was faithful, neither was there any error or fault found in him. (Daniel 6:4)
- And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a perverse generation, children who are unfaithful. (Deuteronomy 32:20)
- Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. (Habakkuk 2:4)
- The problem with his genealogy: Counter-missionaries have said this alone is the biggest factor as to why Yeshua did not qualify as the Jewish Messiah. Even if Yeshua had accomplished all that the prophets spoke of, his genealogy alone would disqualify him! The Messiah must be a descendent of King David. Christians say: this can be done by using Joseph's lineage. Yeshua being born of Mary/The Virgin Birth removes Joseph from the picture. They also say that Joseph adopted Yeshua and passed on his lineage by way of adoption! There is NO Biblical basis to this concept of passing on one's line through adoption.
Agreed.
- Since Joseph descended from Jeconiah, he then falls under the curse of that King! This means that none of his (Jeconiah's) descendants could ever sit as King upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)
Let's look at the actual curse:
"As I live" says the Lord, "even if you Coniah (meaning Jehoiachin; Coniah and Jeconiah are his cursed names) the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were a signet upon My right hand, I would tear you off. And I will give you to the hand of those who seek your life, and to the hand of those whose face you fear, to the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and to the hand of the Chaldeans. And I will cast you out, and your mother who bore you, to another country, where you were not born; and there shall you die. But to the land to which they desire to return, there shall they not return. Is this man Coniah a despised broken vessel? An object that no one cares for? Why are they cast out, he and his seed, and banished to a land which they know not? O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the Lord." Thus says the Lord: "Inscribe this man childless, a man who will not prosper in his days; for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah." (Jeremiah 22:24-30)
What are the conditions listed in the curse?
- Signet is removed as a sign of authority being taken away (he is no longer King of Judah).
- His name is changed.
- He will be childless.
- He would not prosper in his days.
- None of his offspring will prosper.
- None of his offspring would sit on the throne.
- None of his offspring would rule in Judah.
To evaluate the curse placed on Jeconiah, we must consider the different renditions of his name throughout the text. That is, cursed names are derogatory, by reversal and by shortening. Righteous men in the Tanach commonly have their names lengthened. The first time Jeconiah is mentioned is in the book of Kings which deals with his ascension while he was still righteous. His birth name is used in these verses (Jehoachin). (2nd Kings 24:6, 24:8, 24:12) In 24:15 the curse begins, and it is the last time we see this king's name mentioned or called by his birth name.
Moving forward, while the book of Kings speaks about this king using his birth name, the book of Jeremiah uses the shortened form of his name - Coniah. Jeremiah isn't discussing his ascension to the throne, he is discussing his exile. In these verses, which speak of the curse, the shortened forms of his name are used.
As we read in Jeremiah, the prophet never once calls him by his birth name except once - at the very end of his prophecy. The Torah tells us that we have a choice. A choice is given between life and death, good and evil. Hashem begs us to choose life. We see throughout the books of the Tanach that a negative prophecy can always be reversed through repentance.
The book of Jonah is the best example of this, where a cursed city repents after hearing the negative prophecy spoken against it. The curse is removed, not because God changed his mind, but rather because Ninveh chooses life. God puts the choice in front of us. A prophecy of good will not come to pass if those to whom it was given perform wickedly. God keeps his promises; He promised if we chose life, it will be good with us in our days.
Jeconiah languished in a dungeon in Babylon all the days of Nebuchadnezzer. He was imprisoned for 37 years. However, Jeconiah repented during that time according to Tanach, and according to the Jewish sages:
"And it came to pass in the thirty seventh year of the captivity of Jehoiachin King of Judah, in the twelfth month, in the twenty fifth day of the month, that Evil-Merodach king of Babylon in the first year of his reign lifted up the head of Jehoiachin King of Judah, and brought him out of prison, and spoke kindly to him, and set his throne above the throne of the kings who were with him in Babylon, and changed his prison garments; and he did continually eat bread before him all the days of his life. And for his allowance, there was a continual allowance given him by the king of Babylon, every day a portion until the day of his death, all the days of his life." (Jeremiah 52:31-34.)
Jeremiah restored his birth name. No longer is the cursed name used as in every other chapter of Jeremiah. Jehoiachin is forgiven. Let's examine those conditions of the curse discussed earlier to see if they still apply:
- REVERSED - He is once again called King of Judah, and his throne is set above the kings of all the other kings in the Empire. The signet ring is restored to his grandson upon return to the land of Israel. (Haggai 2:23)
- REVERSED - His name is restored to Jehoiachin.
- REVERSED - He does in fact have children. (1 Chronicles 3:16-17) His son's name is Shealtiel. Shealtiel means, "I asked of God." Jewish sages understand that Jehoiachin asked God to forgive him while in prison and that God indicated his forgiveness by annulling his curse and giving him sons. The Jewish sages also suggest that Zerubavel, his grandson, will be the progenitor of the Messiah.
- REVERSED - It is evident from 2nd Kings 25 and Jeremiah 52 that he did in fact prosper in his days.
- REVERSED - See No. 7, below.
- REVERSED - See No. 7, below.
- REVERSED - His grandson Zerubavel did in fact rule in Judah, and did prosper, and did sit on a throne, as is clear in the book of Zechariah. Zerubavel returned to Judah, and the captives who returned with him appointed him leader. Do you think that such great sages and prophets as Ezra, Zechariah, Haggai, and Daniel would forget about this curse and appoint a person who could never rule in Judah?
- Some will trace Yeshua back to King David using Mary's lineage (third chapter of Luke). Problem, the third chapter of Luke traces Joseph's genealogy not Mary's.
Agreed.
- Problem, even if Mary's line could somehow be traced back to King David - tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not the mother
(Num1:18; Ezra 2:59).
There is no language that requires the Messiah be traced on His father's side to King David. The response to this is that even if the language is not specified, one can infer that custom will apply, thus, we must trace through the father's line. In this instance, however, the language is very clear that blood relation is sufficient
2 Samuel 7:12 provides, "When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body." Notice that the language provides that relation to the body of David is sufficient. There is no constraining language concerning tribal affiliation. Similarly, Isaiah 11:10 states "In that day the root of Jesse (David's father) will stand as a banner of all the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious."
Root translated into Hebrew and Greek means descendant, branch of the family, or stock. If Mary was a direct physical descendent of David, she would meet this definition. Again, restrictive language concerning tribal affiliation is not at issue.
The passages cited by traditional Judaism that purport to require tribal affiliation include Numbers: 1:18 and Ezra 2:59. Numbers 1:18 is a discussion of census procedures to be used in creating the Jewish military. The aim, as the language specifically suggests, is to obtain an accurate count of able men in each tribe (Numbers 1:3). Any analogy to the above Messianic scripture is inapplicable. Ezra 2:59 provides a list of men that returned from Babylonian exile. It does not discount the analysis of the Messianic scripture provided above.
- Problem: if the family line could go through the mother, Mary does not qualify as being from a legitimate Messianic family. Since the Messiah must be a descendent of David THROUGH his son Solomon (II Sam. 7:14; I Chron 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). But Luke goes through David's son Nathan, not Solomon!
We must trace Mary's line through Matthew Chapter 1, and not Luke Chapter 3. When tracing Yeshua's genealogy in Matthew, the author refers to three sets of 14, or 42 generations until Yeshua. However, if we add up the generations, there are only 41. There is an explanation for this: The Joseph mentioned in Matthew 1:16 is the father of Mary, not the husband. Thus, Matthew Chapter 1 is actually describing Mary's lineage, and not Joseph's. This provides us with 42 generations.
Matthew 1:16 states, "Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary"...." Matthew 1:18-19 similarly provides, "Because Joseph her (Mary's) husband was a righteous man..." Based on this language, it appears the text is describing the same Joseph. This contention is reinforced by the Greek translation, where the word "aner" is used to describe Joseph in both contexts. However, when one examines the Aramaic version of Matthew, the Joseph mentioned in 1:16 is described as "gowra," a word used elsewhere in Matthew to signify "father". For example, the Greek translation of Matthew 7:9 provides, "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?". The Aramaic reads "which father (gowra) among you...."
The counter-argument is that Matthew was written in Greek and not Aramaic, thus, the point is moot. Historical evidence does not support this position. Papias, the Greek church leader who composed the earliest known information on the gospels, states that, "Matthew composed his history in the Hebrew dialect, and every one translated it as he was able." It is crucial to point out that Papias refers to the Hebrew dialect, and not the Hebrew language. The Hebrew dialect of the time was Aramaic.
Papias' contention is reinforced in Book V, Chapter 10 of his work, which discusses an Egyptian father named Pataneus who lived in the second century.The section provides: Pataneus went as far as India, where he appears to have found that Matthew's Gospel had arrived before him and was in the hands of some there who had come to know Christ. Bartholomew, one of the apostles, had preached to them and had left behind Matthew's account in the actual Aramaic characters, and it was preserved till the time of Pantaenus's mission.
The words "gowra" (Matt 1:16) and "baa'la" (Matthew 1:19) can both mean man or husband. Gowra, however, also means father (it is derived from a root word meaning strong one or protector). The question becomes, "Why would the author call the same Joseph a "gowra" in Matt: 1:6, and a "baa'la" in Matt: 1:9? The obvious answer is the author was speaking of two different men.
- Another issue is that of Luke and Matthew listing both Shealtiel and Zerubbabel as descendants from "the cursed" Jeconiah. Should Mary descend from them, this would not be of any help.
Not true. Please see the "curse" discussion above.
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